Ni yo na Gen Jean Varret yahisemo, ubwo nk’Umusirikare Mukuru wari ukuriye bagenzi be b’Abafaransa bari muri misiyo mu Rwanda hagati ya 1990 na 1993 yanze kurebera, akaburira igihugu cye kuri Jenoside yari iri gututumba, ariko abonye bamwimye amatwi ahitamo kwegura aho kuzapfana inkomanga ku mutima ku bwo kuba indorerezi mu makosa.
Kuva mu Ukwakira 1990 kugera muri Mata 1993, Gen Jean Varret niwe wari ukuriye ibikorwa by’Ingabo z’u Bufaransa zari mu butumwa mu Rwanda.
Uyu munsi afite imyaka 85, yinjiye mu gisirikare cy’u Bufaransa akiri muto kuko yari akirangiza amashuri nk’umusore w’imyaka 25, arwana intambara nyinshi zinyuranye kandi zikomeye, zirimo nk’iyo muri Algérie yaguyemo benshi mu bo bari kumwe.
Uyu munsi iyo muganira, wumva ko ari umusaza wabonye byinshi. Yabonye Isi mu makuba, mu byago no mu byishimo. Gusa uko yasoje urugendo rwe mu gisirikare, bihabanye n’uko yabitekerezaga mbere ubwo yakijyagamo.
Ubwo yari mu Rwanda, yiboneye n’amaso ibimenyetso bigaragaza umugambi wa Jenoside wari uri gutegurwa, bishingiye ahanini ku bufasha igihugu cye cyahaga leta ya Habyarimana ariko abikojeje ba shebuja bamutera utwatsi.
Yagerageje kandi kwamagana ubufasha mu bya gisirikare bwatangwaga n’igihugu cye ku Ngabo za Habyarimana aho kugira ngo ibyo yavugaga bihabwe agaciro, yokejwe igitutu kugeza yeguye.
Ni ibintu byamugoye kubyakira kugeza ejo bundi nyuma y’imyaka 27 ubwo kera kabaye u Bufaransa bwemeye ibyo yavugaga binyuze muri Raporo ya Komisiyo Duclert.
Ni umwe mu bari baherekeje Emmanuel Macron mu ruzinduko rw’amateka yagiriye i Kigali, rurangiye amara indi minsi itanu azenguruka mu bice bitandukanye. Yagiye i Muhanga n’i Rubavu.
Mu kiganiro yagiranye na IGIHE cyabaye hifashishijwe ikoranabuhanga ageze i Paris, yagarutse ku rugendo rwe, uruhare rw’igihugu cye mu mateka ashaririye y’u Rwanda, uko yimwe amatwi n’abari bamukuriye, urugendo rushya rw’umubano w’u Rwanda n’u Bufaransa n’ibindi.
IGIHE: Ni iyihe sano ufitanye n’u Rwanda?
Gen Jean Varret: Navuga ko namenye u Rwanda ntinze. Nagizwe Umuyobozi ukuriye Ibikorwa bya Gisirikare by’u Bufaransa mu Rwanda ubwo nari Jenerali w’inyenyeri eshatu.
Inshingano zawe kuri uwo mwanya zari izihe?
Minisiteri y’Ingabo yantije iy’ubutwererane aho nari umuyobozi ukurikirana iby’imikoranire ya gisirikare mu bihugu 28, cyane ibyo muri Afurika ariko si ho gusa. Abasirikare b’Abafaransa bari muri ibyo bihugu bose bari mu nshingano zanjye.
Ibihugu 28 byose wabikurikiranaga wenyine?
Ni inshingano ziremereye ariko kuko namaze igihe kirekire muri Afurika, nakundaga murimo wanjye cyane. Aho ni naho mu 1990 namenyeye u Rwanda kuko ntirwari mu bihugu byakolonijwe n’u Bufaransa, ntabwo nari nduzi. Nageze mu Rwanda bwa mbere mu 1990.
Nari mpafite Umu-Colonel [Col René Galinié wari Umukuru w’Ishami ry’Ubutwererane mu bya Gisirikare hagati y’u Bufaransa n’u Rwanda, aho yakoreraga muri Ambasade yabwo i Kigali] wari umpagarariye, wari uhamaze imyaka igera kuri itatu ariko agomba kuhamara igera kuri ine.
Ni iki yakubwiye ku Rwanda?
Nkihagera, yambwiye ko ari igihugu giteye impungenge, gitutumbamo ibibazo kandi noneho bikirimo bitararangira. Muri make, yatumye menya uko byifashe. Nkihagera, nazengurutse muri kajugujugu nsanga ni igihugu cyiza, gifite imisozi igihumbi itoshye. Ntabwo nabonye umwanya wo kuzenguruka n’imodoka ariko urugendo rwa mbere rwari rwiza, nabonye igihugu cyiza.
Colonel Galinié yakubwiye ko igihugu gifite ibihe bibazo?
[umaze kumva ko igihugu gifite ibibazo wabyifashemo ute?
Nongeye kubisesengura neza ngeze i Paris nganira n’uwari umpagarariye mu Rwanda. Nza gusanga hari ibibazo biteye inkeke bituma nsubirayo [mu Rwanda] kenshi. Ndi i Paris, nagerageje gusobanurira abankuriye mu gisirikare n’abanyapolitiki ko tudakwiye gukomeza imikoranire uko yari iriho icyo gihe.
Watanze intabaza ku bafata ibyemezo b’abasirikare n’abanyapolitiki, bakwima amatwi. Ni ikihe cyemezo cyafashwe, nyuma y’uko utanze intabaza?
[Nibyo,] Ntabwo banyumvise, ntibanteze amatwi. Mu nama ziga ku kibazo kidasanzwe zabaga kenshi, nabaga mpari, nabonaga ko ibitekerezo byanjye bidahabwa agaciro ngo bishyirwe mu bikorwa. Gusa buhoro buhoro, bagendaga banyambura zimwe mu nshingano zanjye.
Byageze aho usigarana inshingano ku izina gusa, ni ko byagenze?
Yego, ni byo. Buhoro buhoro nagendaga nshyirwa ku ruhande. Rero, iyo umusirikare bamwimye amatwi, araceceka hanyuma akabivamo. Ni nabyo nakoze.
Nababajwe n’uburyo urugendo rwanjye rwiza mu gisirikare rwarangiye by’umwihariko, ibyo nari narakoze muri Afurika. Ntabwo nigeze mbyiyumvisha, nabifashe nko gutsindwa.
Ariko ziriya mpuruza zawe nizo zagaragajwe na Komisiyo Duclert…
Nyuma y’imyaka 25, Perezida Macron yashyizeho Komisiyo ya Duclert na Perezida Kagame ashyiraho indi ya Muse. Izo Komisiyo zombi, zanzuye ibintu bijya gusa.
Ubuhamya bwanjye muri Komisiyo y’u Bufaransa bwagize akamaro kuko bwankuye mu kato. Komisiyo yemeje ibyo navugaga kiriya gihe.
Ndashimira Abaperezida bombi, Kagame wanyakiriye i Paris, twaje gusanga tubyumva kimwe.
Wari mu ntumwa zaherekeje Perezida Macron mu Rwanda, wabyakiriye ute?
Nabyakiriye neza cyane, ndashimira byimazeyo Perezida Macron wansabye kumuherekeza mu Rwanda, byankoze ku mutima. Na Kagame wanyakiriye i Kigali. Nasabye kongera iminsi hanyuma Kagame arabinyemerera anabimfashamo. Nagiye i Kabgayi n’i Rubavu, aho hose ngenda nganira n’abanyarwanda.
Urugendo rwawe mu Rwanda rwagusigiye iki nyuma y’imyaka 27 Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi ibaye?
Rwansingiye amasomo abiri akomeye. Irya mbere, numvise uburemere bw’amarorerwa yabaye ya Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi. Birumvikana, ndi mu Bufaransa nari mbizi ko mu Rwanda habaye Jenoside. Ariko mpageze, nabonye uburyo igihugu cyashegeshwe n’ayo mahano ndengakamere.
Ubona uburyo igihugu cyashegeshwe, na n’ubu izo ngaruka ziracyagaragara. Muri abo bose twaganiriye, reka nguhe urugero rumwe:
Naganiriye umwanya munini n’umwana wari ufite imyaka umunani mu 1994. Ku myaka umunani yahondaguwe ubuhiri, iyo urebye ku mutwe we ubona inkovu z’imihoro.
Yavuriwe mu bitaro bya Gisirikare bya Goma. Yatwawe muri kajugujugu ajyanwa i Goma, yambwiye ko ashaka guhura n’umuganga w’Umufaransa wamurokoye. Yitwa Jean Christophe, ubu ngiye gushyira imbaraga mu gushaka umuganga witwa Jean Christophe warokoye uwo mwana. Muri ibyo biganiro, nabonye ingaruka za Jenoside.
Icya kabiri, nabonye uburyo igihugu cyiyubatse, bijyanye n’intero ya ntibizongere ukundi, ‘Never Again’. Nasuranye amarangamutima urwibutso rwa Jenoside rwa Gisozi, navuga ko uko namaraga umwanya munini ndeba inyandiko n’amafoto; nabonye ukuntu iriya Jenoside yari yarateguwe [...] ubwo natangaga impuruza ku bwicanyi bugiye kuba, nagakwiye kuba narakoresheje ijambo Jenoside.
U Rwanda rwakoze ibishoboka byose kugira ngo bitazongera kubaho. Inzibutso ni ingenzi cyane mu gusigasira ko bitazongera kubaho.
Naganiriye n’Umunyamabanga Nshingwabikorwa wa Komisiyo y’Igihugu yo kurwanya Jenoside, CNLG; nabonye uburyo igihugu gikora ubukangurambaga, uhereye mu mashuri abanza mu kwigisha abanyarwanda ububi bwa Jenoside.
Jenoside igira ingaruka ku biragano byinshi, kuzirenga bisaba igihe n’imbaraga nyinshi.
Wakiriye ute ijambo rya Macron ryo ku wa 27 Gisurasi 2021 i Kigali n’igisubizo Perezida Kagame yamuhaye?
Abaperezida bombi bakoze imbwirwaruhame zikomeye, ni ngombwa ko itangazamakuru ribyitsaho. Iki kiganiro tugiranye niko kamaro kacyo, nibura ndizera ko hari umusanzu muto nshobora gutanga mu gukura igihugu hagati y’umubano w’u Rwanda n’u Bufaransa, kandi nzawutanga uko nshoboye.
Nyuma y’aho Raporo ya Duclert isohotse, muvuga ko mwasubijwe agaciro kanyu, bishingiye kuki?
Nyuma y’imyaka 40 mu gisirikare, numvise ari nk’akarengane gakomeye. Iyo weguye, uba wemera ko watsinzwe. Nyamara Komisiyo Duclert yanyakiriye inshuro nyinshi, yanyumvishije ko nari mfite impamvu zifatika zo kwegura kiriya gihe. Kuba Komisiyo ubwayo yarabishimangiye [impuruza natangaga] byansubije agaciro kanjye. Mu yandi magambo, nasubijwe icyubahiro.
Uko gusubirana agaciro, hari undi mubisangiye mu bo mwabanye mu gisirikare?
Yego, ndashaka kongera kuvuga kuri Col Galinié wari umpagarariye mu Rwanda, nawe ubwe yakomerekejwe no kutumvwa kwacu, amenye ko neguye, byatumye nawe yegura. Mbisangiye kandi na Général [Patrice] Sarte.
Mu gisirikare, twakundaga gutanga umuburo tuti iyi mikoranire si myiza. Ntabwo [iyo mikoranire] ariyo yari ikwiriye. Gukorana n’ubutegetsi bwa Habyarimana ntabwo cyari ikintu cyiza. Twari benshi babizi, babivuga, ariko ntibadutegaga amatwi. Ubu mu Bufaransa, Komisiyo Duclert isa niyangaragaje uko ndi, imvugo yanjye ubu ishimangira impamvu kiriya gihe ntari nshyigikiye imikoranire na Habyarimana.
Navuze ibyo nagombaga kuvuga, ubu ndashaka gukoresha neza ikiruhuko cyanjye cy’izabukuru.
Ijambo Perezida Macron yavugiye i Kigali, ryakiriwe nk’ijambo ry’amateka. Rivuze iki ku Ngabo z’u Bufaransa?
Ni ingenzi cyane. Igisirikare cy’u Bufaransa kimwe nk’ikindi gisirikare ku Isi cyubaha amabwiriza gihabwa ya politiki. Icy’ingenzi mu mbwirwaruhame ya Macron, icyo yavuze kandi cy’ukuri, ni uko Abasirikare b’u Bufaransa bari mu Rwanda kiriya gihe, batigeze bagira uruhare muri Jenoside. Bararebereye, ahari wenda bagwa mu ikosa ryo kudatabara ariko nta ruhare na rumwe bagize muri Jenoside. Muri make, Ingabo z’u Bufaransa zanyuzwe no kuba Umugaba Mukuru wazo atigeze azishinja.
Nabivuze kenshi, niba abayobozi bakuru bo muri kiriya gihe haba mu gisirikare cyangwa muri Politiki, iyo bamenya ko ibyo bari gukora bizageza kuri Jenoside, ndahamya ko batari kubikora.
Reka mvuge ku basirikare, hari bamwe mu basirikare bakuru nanjye ndimo, badashobora kwemera ko Perezida abegekaho amakosa y’abanyapolitiki. Kuri iyo ngingo, yatanze icyo cyizere.
Naho se ijambo rya Kagame urarivugaho iki?
Mu gusubiza Macron, Kagame yamubwiye ko yafashe “risque”. Kandi ni ukuri, ni byo yakoze kuko ijambo ryose ry’Umukuru w’Igihugu riba ryuje Politiki. Kandi mu Bufaransa, ntafite inshuti gusa, afite n’abo bahanganye muri Politiki. Gusa ibyo ntaho mpuriye nabyo.
Ese mutekereza kugaruka mu Rwanda?
Cyane rwose ariko nkaza nk’umuntu usanzwe, nta muntu ubizi. Icyo gihugu giteye ubwuzu, gitandukanye cyane n’ibindi bihugu bya Afurika namenye.
Ndi mu ndege nsubira i Paris, namenyanye n’Umunyamakuru wa Le Monde, yari avuye mu biruhuko mu Rwanda n’umuhungu w’imyaka 15. Bazengurutse u Rwanda n’amaguru, bagakora ibilometero 20 ku munsi.
Nanjye nari kwifuza kuzagira urugendo nk’urwo, ariko ndashaje, mfite imyaka 85, ariko nakifuje kuzenguruka mfite agakapu mu mugongo n’umuhungu wanjye mu gushaka kumenya neza iki gihugu.
Nkagenda n’amaguru igihugu cy’imisozi igihumbi mpereye mu Majyaruguru nkageza mu Majyepfo. Byanshimisha ariko ubu ntibyashoboka.
Wenda aho gukora ibilometero 20 mwakora bitanu ku munsi…
Yego
Mwavuze ko mwatangiriye umwuga w’igisirikare mu ntambara yo muri Algérie, ni ibiki wibuka?
Ni ukuri intambara yo muri Algérie nyifiteho urwibutso rukomeye kuko nari mfite imyaka 25, nkiva mu ishuri nahise noherezwa ku rugamba guhangana n’urupfu.
Binyuze mu mabwiriza nagiye ntanga, bamwe mu bo nayoboraga babuze ubuzima, nanjye nari kubutakaza. Gutangira umwuga wa gisirikare ku myaka 25, ugahera ku rugamba ni ibintu bitibagirana.
Mwagiye i Rubavu mwibonera uko u Rwanda rwakira impunzi z’Abanye-Congo nyuma y’iruka ry’ikirunga nta bufasha bw’amahanga rusabye, wabyakiriye ute?
Nabyo byankoze ku mutima. Twavuye mu muhanda wa kaburimbo, twinjira mu wundi w’ibitaka. Inkambi iri ku bilometero bine uvuye ku mupaka kugira ngo Abanye-Congo bashobore kuhaza n’amaguru. Abo naganiriye nabo bambwiye ko bishimiye uburyo bakiriwe bakanafashwa.
